Turning words into experiences that travel

[00:00:00] Jason Hemingway: Welcome to In Other Words, the podcast from Phrase, where we speak with business leaders shaping how businesses grow, adapt, and connect with customers around the world. I’m your host, Jason Hemingway, CMO at Phrase. And today, we have the pleasure of talking about the role global content plays in building trusted experience at companies at scale across all different markets around the globe. In today’s world, customers expect relevance, consistency, and a brand voice that feels human wherever they are, but that’s harder than it sounds when content is moving so quickly, channels continue to multiply, personalization is now kind of an expectation for everybody. And in fintech, which we’ll be talking about today, the stakes rise again because language directly affects customer trust and customer action. So, my guest today is Freddie Braun, Localization and International Content Lead at Monzo. And he’s previously led translation, localization, and content experience at Klarna. And he ran global translations and adaptations at Condé Nast. He describes himself as a ‘third culture kid’, and he’s about to publish his debut novel, Golden Boy. So, that’s exciting times. And Freddie, welcome. Great to have you with us.

[00:01:14] Freddie Braun: Thanks so much for having me on the show. I appreciate it.

[00:01:17] Jason Hemingway: So Freddie, let’s get straight into it. You’ve worked in an editorial capacity for some of the top publications and then moved into fintech. Can you walk us through the key steps in your career and kind of what led you to localization and global content?

[00:01:31] Freddie Braun: It’s always disappointing to people to hear that I kind of stumbled into localization by chance, I actually studied psychology, and then tacked on a Master’s in Marketing, wanted to become a therapist, was put off by the fact that a PhD would have taken forever. So, eventually, I realized though that understanding human behavior is also a valuable asset when it comes to crafting impactful content. So in a way, I get the best of both worlds now. So, as you mentioned, I started in editorial, and, you know, I learned quickly there that voice isn’t decoration, it’s how you create trust. And then moving into fintech kind of raised the stakes, right? Because if a sentence or a piece of content confuses someone during onboarding or an important money moment, you potentially lose that customer forever. So, leading localization at Net-A-Porter, Condé Nast, and at Monzo, I kept seeing the same pattern. You know, translation is necessary as we all know, but it’s the cultural localization, you know, the orchestration of language, visuals, journeys that makes a product feel native and safe to use. So, you know, whether it’s editorial or product, the work I love is essentially turning words into experiences that travel.

[00:02:42] Jason Hemingway: Yeah, it’s interesting, isn’t it? I think, you know, you can often fall into that trap of just thinking it’s just translating stuff. And actually, it’s being culturally resonant I think is the important thing. And you’ve been scaling that kind of vision and local content across markets for a number of well-known brands, as you said. What, in your view, has been the kind of toughest challenge on keeping that content kind of on brand or having that brand voice? And how have you sort of tackled it?

[00:03:12] Freddie Braun: Yeah, I mean, the hardest part for me is always balancing consistency with relevance, right? Because you can be perfectly on brand and still miss a moment in a market, right? You can feel perfectly local and still drift away from who you are as a brand, the brand DNA. So, you know, the way that I found that you can mitigate that is a pretty simple 80-20 principle. So 80% is a shared system. So, voice characteristics, core UX, interaction patterns, right? So these are the things that must never change. And then the 20% are kind of the governed flex. So, leaving room for cultural cues, examples, visual choices, things like that. So if you pair that 80-20 with clear guardrails, you know, style guides, glossaries, red lines, and strong QA, then I think that’s where the magic happens. People always feel like 20% feels like a small tweak, but it actually changes the game because it really channels creativity into the right places.

[00:04:11] Jason Hemingway: When you’ve kind of gone through your career history, and your remit kind of goes into sort of that broader experience level. So, taking it out of that kind of just thinking about content, for example, and how does that or how did that kind of evolve, and your view of the influence and the importance of kind of creating that kind of culturally resonant, localized kind of experiences as businesses scale? And how does that sort of play into how businesses grow in your point of view and engage with their customers, I guess?

[00:04:45] Freddie Braun: I mean, when I took on kind of the broader content group lead role at Klarna, I worked a lot with English language content and localization. So, what we really wanted to do is fine-tune the source copy in a way that it streamlines localization, and they kind of fit together perfectly, right? So, one example I can think of is we created this thing called The Tonality Matrix. And the idea was very simple. We all knew that, you know, tone isn’t a one-size-fits-all solution, right, it should flex by channel, by intent, by risk. So, for example, if you think about in-product UI, right, let’s say it’s a payment reminder. You want that content to be calm, direct, low friction. If you then follow up with a piece of CRM content, you might want that to be warmer and more motivating. So, we kind of defined these sliders: clarity, warmth, urgency, and then mapped them to recommended ranges per scenario with examples and dos and don’ts. So, essentially, what that created was what meant that the English, the source content, wasn’t a single draft to translate, but it was a design system tied to desired outcomes. So, the way that that impacted localization was, in scaling a business, was once the source communicates intent, you know, what we’re trying to achieve, what the desired tone is, then localization stops guessing. So, markets get a governed flex, and they know what to adapt and what not to adapt, right? So that kind of speeds up the work, reduces guesswork, and also gives legal teams a pre-approved range of design rather than sentence-by-sentence debates. So, you know, that eventually, we noticed that moved localization from the cost of doing business to real growth lever at the end of the day. So, you know, kind of understanding that how you deal with source content really makes localization more predictable, measurable, and really directly linked to engagement ultimately.

[00:06:39] Jason Hemingway: So, it’s almost like you need to, kind of, have that infrastructure or those design systems to be put in place to kind of get it right as you go. And what I really liked about what you said, there was this kind of idea that you can flex locally once you’ve got those things kind of centrally managed and put in place. If you’re doing that as a kind of leader, what do you need to get right in that operating principle or that structure to make sure it scales whilst giving the flex for those teams or making sure it’s relevant in those sort of regional areas?

[00:07:13] Freddie Braun: I mean, I think before launching in any new market, even if it’s market one, I think there should be three foundations in place: that’s people, process, and tech. Right? So, when it comes to people, that’s the most intuitive. So you need obviously language leads who own quality and terminology. And I always think of these leads as not just pure linguists, but also kind of cultural unicorns. They really understand the culture for the market for which they’re writing. Then you need the right artwork and design people. Ideally, you’ll also speak that language, who adapt the layouts and the visuals. And then again, especially in banking, working for Monzo, you know, really strong legal and compliance partners who review these systems. So, that’s the people. Second part is the process, right? One of the first things I always stress in a new role is you need a really clean intake and prior flow, right? So, a living content inventory where all your content lives that is up-to-date, searchable; you need a clear RACI for who decides what, you know, especially when small businesses grow quickly, that happens to fall by the wayside often. And then you need a strong QA gate to match that risk, right? So, especially when it comes to money and legal moments, that’s very important. And then finally, tech comes as no surprise to you, a translation management system with term bases, style guides, basically a single source of truth for strings, automated checks, formatting, accessibility, so, I think when you get these three things right off the bat, then you kind of avoid paying that, you know, patch at the end tax that tends to slow down launches and confuses customers.

[00:08:49] Jason Hemingway: Yeah, it’s interesting that people, process, tech is something that you’ve long talked about in kind of marketing circles with MarTech in particular. It’s no different, isn’t it, when you’re building anything in a content sort of side of things. So, let’s take it away from kind of the process and what we need to do, and the kind of how businesses think about setting the foundations of growth and the principles around it. When you think about global experience in general and customers and their journeys, where are the few moments where language and relevance have the biggest impact on trust and action in your view? Or are there big moments, or is it, you know, all of the different moments can have big impacts?

[00:09:31] Freddie Braun: I mean, there’s a lot of moments, but I think if I had to whittle it down, I think there are three moments that carry disproportionate weight, especially when it comes to fintech and finance. So, onboarding, very important, you know, it’s a cliché, but you only get one chance to make a first impression. Money moments and money movement, right, limits, fees, anything like that. And then anything to do with incident and support communications, right? So these three things are really high load and often regulated, which means that clarity and tone directly influence completion, confidence, and whether the customer feels looked after.

[00:10:09] Jason Hemingway: Yeah, interesting. I think even in, especially that, even in non-regulated industries, I think you’ve got those three in place. And oftentimes when you correct, you know, an incident or you support somebody through a poor experience, you can actually build better relationships with those customers sometimes, not every time, obviously, but I think that’s interesting. So, when you think about global experience and content teams, and this kind of, those journeys that those customers are on. What are the things that you think companies, or things that you see, that companies still completely underestimate? Is it those three things, or there are other areas where companies don’t think about it enough?

[00:10:52] Freddie Braun: It’s actually always the same thing. I always talk about myself as a, you know, door-to-door salesman in my first few months in a new world. I think teams and companies often underestimate how much needs designing upfront, right? You can’t just bolt on global at the end of a project lifecycle, right? So, I always say localization teams need to be involved from the jump, right? When, you know, even as soon as you’re talking about, at the inception point, because you need to account for small things like text expansion or non-Latin scripts, but also larger things like iconography needs to read locally. We all know that the meaning of color can shift significantly across markets. Spokespeople who might be using our campaigns have different reputations in different markets. So it’s really about creating bespoke iterations in parallel rather than simply translating a release in the 11th hour. So, I think if you do this early, you ship faster and safer.

[00:11:51] Jason Hemingway: Yeah. So, it’s really building things in up front, and not expecting it all to be done at the last minute, which I think is a really interesting shift for many, you know, you talked about the kind of scale-up businesses or fast-growth businesses. Oftentimes, it’s like we need to move quickly, and it’s like, yeah, but you need to start with those principles and thinking at the beginning. Otherwise, if you move too quickly, you’re going to, you know, not build the engagement you seek with customers. So, it’s an interesting point. So, it’s almost like take the breath to then go and do it properly, and it will be quicker in the long run.

[00:12:21] Jason Hemingway: Do you, have you ever seen it?

[00:12:22] Freddie Braun: I was just going to say such a cliché again, but the whole slow down to speed up thing through here.

[00:12:27] Freddie Braun: Yeah.

[00:12:27] Jason Hemingway: Yeah. No. There’s some truth in cliches sometimes, isn’t there? So, it’s okay to use them. When you see it break down in practice, or have you seen it break down in practice, even when product and the strategy are strong, and how does that sort of manifest itself? How do you know?

[00:12:47] Freddie Braun: I kind of touched on it before, but it all comes down to organization and having that robust content inventory, right? Because if you don’t have it all in one place, different channels drift, and customers encounter different truths along the user journey, and that erodes trust instantly. So also, I think if legal checks arrive late, you either slip your date or ship risk. And again, if language expertise is under-resourced, then quality drifts, and your customers will tell you that with churn. So, you know, some of these fixes aren’t sexy or glamorous: inventory, governance, staff review, but they are ultimately what make global scalable and repeatable.

[00:13:27] Jason Hemingway: Yeah, interesting. I think that in every part where you’re trying to scale a business, there’s always things that need to be put in place that aren’t necessarily as sexy as you want to be doing every minute of the day. But it’s vitally important to make the work good. But so we talked, you talked a little bit about this idea of giving that flex for local sort of people and local teams. How do you do that? How do you sort of give that? You’ve got the centralized stuff, but what sort of permissions do you give them? Because you’ve got to protect that kind of global voice, haven’t you? You’ve got to protect what you’re doing globally. How do you give them enough flex for them to feel like, okay, this is we’re able to sort of move rather than being constrained by bureaucracy or something like that?

[00:14:08] Freddie Braun: Yeah, I think the key is to have a master voice guide that is company-wide, but then you leave enough room to add market specifics, right? So, again, really defining what flexes and what doesn’t. If we look at Monzo, for example, it’s such an iconic brand when it comes to tone of voice and being plugged into culture. You know, whether you’re in Monzo or, you know, the references to Greggs sausage rolls or whatever it is, you know, we don’t want to lose that. So, you want to be able to replicate that without losing that uniqueness. So, again, a master voice guide and then leaving flex for market additions. And you really lean into the market experts on the ground to help you find those equivalents. And then you have a living terminology and example library in your TMS, so writers, designers, marketers are all pulling from the same cannon, ultimately, and that’s really how you feel like one brand in many places without sounding cloned or stiff.

[00:15:05] Jason Hemingway: Do you ever find it uncomfortable, kind of, letting go of that kind of because, you know, you’ve built the kind of plan of strategy, you’ve got some good execution, then you let it go, and you go, “Okay, I’m trusting the teams to get this right.”

[00:15:18] Jason Hemingway: How does that feel?

[00:15:20] Freddie Braun: I’m not a control freak that way. You know, people are always disappointed when they hear I don’t speak 20 languages. I don’t. But I pride myself in finding the right people and hiring the right people. So, I think you just need to be diligent in finding those unicorns. And when you do, you’ve just got to give up. You’ve got to give up your power and let them do their thing. So, to answer your question, no, I don’t get nervous anymore.

[00:15:43] Jason Hemingway: Good. I think that’s a great answer. It’s about trust, isn’t it? And if you’re getting the right people around you, you build that trust, obviously, with the frameworks that you’ve got in place. But anyway, look, so we’re going to have, every time we do the podcast, we have a mid-show moment. We call it the inbox confession. I ask the same question to every guest, and you’re no different. And this one is all about, you know, what is the one thing in your workday that you wish you could automate?

[00:16:12] Freddie Braun: Honestly, I would automate London commuting. I’d have the Northern Line text me at 7 a.m., say, “There’s severe delays, make your coffee at home.” I know we have the TFL app, but it never, it’s just never displaying the correct information. I don’t know, failing that, a button that would guarantee me on a seat on the tube.

[00:16:28] Jason Hemingway: It’s very, very travel-related. Your inbox confession..

[00:16:32] Freddie Braun: It is. I hate commuting. No, I think jokes aside, you know what? It already exists. I think the Gemini feature for Slack, just summarizing Slack, so you don’t have to, I mean, our Slack is insane. Summarizing that has been a huge, huge help and a time saver. So, it exists. So, I don’t know if that’s cheating, but that’s –

[00:16:51] Jason Hemingway: No. No, it’s not. It’s not. I think that’s good. And I think there are things like that coming out all the time that you think, oh, that’s a brilliant idea. I can do that. Or it’s really helping my productivity. And that’s the beauty of the age of the uncertainty of AI, as it were. It’s, you know, there’s massive progress in lots of different places for all of us. Let’s take it back to sort of the conversation around content and global experience. And the term that I think, you know, is most talked about or has been over the last sort of 10, 15 years in marketing is this idea of personalization. And I think it’s expected everywhere, or people expect a level of personalization. But what does that or how does that manifest itself? Or what does that mean in multilingual markets? And where have you seen that go wrong or right?

[00:17:39] Freddie Braun: Yeah, up until recently, we’ve been talking about personalization. Now, it’s all about hyper-personalization.

[00:17:45] Jason Hemingway: Yes. Yes.

[00:17:46] Freddie Braun: So, a lot of buzzwords. I feel like personalization isn’t just first name plus translated content anymore, right? In my view, it is context plus intent plus culture, right? So, that means recognizing things like local payment habits, seasonal rhythms, risk sensitivity. So, for example, I’m German. My German cousins living in Berlin, who are much younger than me, are unwilling to pay by card because they’re scared the government’s going to be tracking their spending. And for us in the UK, that seems absurd because we just don’t care. So, you know, it’s just thinking about these things and then understanding individuals’ culture on a deep level and then, you know, adapting your content and visuals around that. A common failure I keep seeing is how companies just turn up the volume with content without really deepening the inside. So at best, you just get noise. At worst, it’s absolutely tone deaf, so.

[00:18:46] Jason Hemingway: Yeah, I mean, that’s interesting. And it leads to something I was going to ask you. That’s a good segue into this idea of, you know, now that we have AI and we have tools that can just generate things immediately. And, you know, you’re probably the same as me, that there’s loads of good ideas from around the business and it’s just bombarding you with, okay, yeah, well, I can produce this. I can do that. And it’s almost like it’s very noisy. But you don’t want to stop that kind of thought process, of you know, making the, a good idea is a good idea and getting people to execute it. But how do you balance that need for kind of local relevance with that reality of all this content that’s coming at you? You know, and it’s only going to get worse or better. I don’t know whether it depends on your perspective. It’s only going to get, you can get more high-volume content produced, or more high volume of content produced. So, how do you kind of balance that need for producing it, and keeping it global in a sense?

[00:19:44] Freddie Braun: I think you just have to find the right mix between localizing centrally produced content and then also supplementing it with content produced in language on the ground in each market. There always needs to be a mix because no matter how good your localization experts are and how good your frameworks are, someone based in market will always be more plugged into culture, right? So, they’re going to be faster in spotting shifts, you know, whether it’s cultural, legal or simply what people are talking about that day. So, in my view, central release kind of sets the spine and the guardrails. And then local teams supplement by adding more pulse and more nuance. So ultimately, what you get is speed and consistency with credibility. So, it’s all about finding that balance.

[00:20:31] Jason Hemingway: And how do you, as a leader, sort of listen to that, kind of, from the various teams? What’s the mechanism that you kind of, you know, have that ear to the ground, as it were?

[00:20:42] Freddie Braun: I mean, I’m a big fan of having direct reports in those markets, right? And then they have a dotted line into the marketing leads in those markets. So really, it’s all about collaboration and not feeling like, again, it’s what you said about control earlier and trust. You don’t need to have your team centrally, you know, so you feel like you control them. I think you need to place them in the right places and just have the right dotted lines across the org.

[00:21:06] Jason Hemingway: No, no, fair comment. I think that’s right. So, you’d mentioned a little bit about context, and then there’s, obviously, with lots of the volume, and as you take content out, it’s an important thing to kind of gather data, isn’t it, and use that to help you decide, but how does it work for you in terms of using data and context in deciding how far to adapt content for those different markets and segments? How do you gather it? Or what role does it play?

[00:21:37] Freddie Braun: Yeah, that’s a good question. You’d actually be surprised how many businesses where the localization teams don’t actually have access to real-time data. I mean, for me, it’s listen, test, ship, and learn, right? So, listen is you watch the live signals, you push something live, right, whether it’s a campaign or a new product in a different language, and then you look at, you know, conversion and key steps. Are there spikes in help center searches? Are there spikes in support questions, right? So, you really read what customers are saying in their own words, and that language is the brief. Then you test. So, when you’re talking about low-risk copy, try small variations, what I said before about The Tonality Matrix, right, you kind of mix it up a little bit, test it with different audiences, see what helps people progress along their journey. So, for higher risk areas, anything, again, to do with money or kind of legal wording, you run a same-day cycle, you see how that lands, you propose a fix, you release, you monitor closely. Again, that kind of real-time monitoring. And then you take the learnings, right? So when something works, you add it to the market guidelines that we’ve discussed and tone ranges, so the next launch starts smarter, and that will eventually speed up that cycle.

[00:22:51] Jason Hemingway: It’s like a virtuous circle, isn’t it? That kind of builds on it as you go. But again, as you said, when you join businesses, you’ve got to get all that sort of framework and that thinking in place.

[00:23:02] Freddie Braun: Yes, it’s a lot of work from the beginning.

[00:23:04] Jason Hemingway: Yeah. Yeah. I think that’s what I’m hearing from you quite a lot. It’s good. But once it’s up and running, it’s like an engine that keeps learning and building, so it’s useful. So, let’s take the idea, you know, we’ve touched very briefly about AI, and you know, what it’s doing from a productivity level. But then thinking about global content, you know. It’s now part of, you know, production, assessment, workflow. Where do you see it genuinely helping, you know, multilingual teams today? And where do you keep those, you know, ‘humans in the loop’, as the phrase goes?

[00:23:44] Freddie Braun: I mean, I think this is not an original thought. I think we all know that AI is excellent at speed and scale, right? So first pass drafts, string clustering, variant generation for different channels, things like that, it’s fantastic for. In my view, humors are still central for things like we discussed, you know, brand nuance, brand voice, cultural subtext, accessibility, safety. Some of these things, AI just isn’t at a point where it can pick that up on a granular level, right? So, my rule of thumb is always, AI accelerates creation, and then editors, reviewers, culture experts protect the credibility and the culture.

[00:24:22] Jason Hemingway: Yeah, I think that’s right. And I think, you know, we talked about personalization, and there is a risk that it can make it easier to kind of think about personalizing, but it can actually make it worse and become a bit more superficial, I guess, in a sense, if you don’t use it correctly. So, what keeps it from, is it that human element that really keeps the AI kind of tamed, in a sense, as it were?

[00:24:47] Freddie Braun: Yes. And, you know, I’m not going to name any companies, but there are some organizations that have decided to get rid of older writers and linguists, and it was a mistake. And they’re now coming back with their tails between their legs and rehiring. So, yes, it’s all about the humans who provide the guardrails. So, again, you can divide into before creation, during creation, and after creation. Before creation, again, you lock in the approved terminology, which has been created by humans, right? The voice ranges, the tonality, reference examples, or what we call few-shot examples, to help train AI. And then humans also provide the standard prompts and patterns, right? So, the system starts with the right guardrails in place. During the creation, you have those senior editors with cultural insight, kind of the four-eye principle, right? You have a junior linguist translator, then you have a more senior linguist check. If you need additional checks in market, you can add that in as well. And then I always think it’s really important to have in-context review done by humans. So, whether that is senior copy in Figma or in InDesign, whatever it is, that really helps linguists understand what is their shipping ultimately. And then after creation, again, because it’s banking, legal and compliance sign-offs, there are obviously AI supplementations that can help with that, but they’re not foolproof yet. And then you just keep monitoring, adjusting, right? And you incorporate those learnings into the documentation, so the virtual cycle that you mentioned before. So for me, it’s those things.

[00:26:22] Jason Hemingway: Yeah, no, I think you’re right. And we still see that human element keeping in the loop, as it were, the phrase is right. But there is loads more AI that can be leveraged by those humans to help them do those jobs all the time and make it much more simple and get around more of the scaling things, you know, doing things around the business or helping the business in places that you would have never thought to be able to help because you didn’t have the time or the scale. And that leads us to my next sort of area where I wanted to have a chat with you. And you’ve seen localization move much more, or multilingual content or experience move much closer to, kind of, growth and the business, and how you deal with customers all the time in those key areas. It’s almost like you are a strategic advisor to the business on when thinking about going global, and what do you think it would take for the industry or other localization teams to operate as those strategic advisors rather than kind of the service delivery function of you know we’ll just give it to that team and they’ll get it done and then it will go out?

[00:27:29] Freddie Braun: Yeah, that’s an excellent question. I think I kind of alluded to it before, but I think the shift happens when localization sits at the planning table, right? So, whether that’s roadmap meetings, go-to-market compliance, rather than just being a ticket queue. So again, being involved as early on as possible in the project lifecycle. And then also being allowed to own the standards. So again, like style, terminology, QA, as well as the end-to-end workflows that span different teams, whether it’s designer engineering or CRM legal. Then you suddenly become not just the team that does translations, but you become the way that a company ships credibly and scalably in new markets. So, really that integration piece is key.

[00:28:15] Jason Hemingway: Yeah, I love that. The way the company ships credibly in the market. That’s great. And when you’re in those meetings, how do analytics help you give that strategic guidance? And we talked about the various things that you have in the team to kind of think about that. But how do you get in those group meetings? How do you explain, or what analysis do you have to provide to explain how to do it properly?

[00:28:43] Freddie Braun: I mean, you talk about, you know, I mean, when you look at analytics, you can split it again. You look at what is it that we’ve shipped so far, right? So are key pages and flows localized for each market? Do we meet all the deadlines? How many basic errors did we catch? You know, those kinds of basics. And then you look at the quality. So, how good was that content? You know, were there any language or cultural missteps? Was the copy easy to read and understand? And what themes keep appearing in customer complaints or support tickets? So that’s really important in shaping kind of the overall projects. And then finally, impact, right? So did it work? Are more users completing the steps, for example, onboarding? Are support tickets going down? Are customers staying longer and understanding incident messages? So, I think those three overarching themes are really important to hone in on in these calls.

[00:29:38] Jason Hemingway: Yeah, it’s interesting. And do you tie yourself to other people’s, other teams’ KPIs? You know, how does that work for you? Or have you seen that done?

[00:29:47] Freddie Braun: Yes. I mean, inevitably, you do. I mean, there are certain, you know, overarching KPIs that every team has to hit. But again, it really depends on how you define localization. And I always want to define it as almost its own mini business within the business. And I think you cannot be tied because you’re looking at different impact, you’re looking at different customer segments, so, I guess the answer is somewhat, but ideally they shouldn’t be directly tied and evaluated as such.

[00:30:19] Jason Hemingway: No, but I think the broader thing is that what you need to be able to demonstrate is the business value of what you’re doing, right?

[00:30:26] Freddie Braun: Yes. And some of that is tangible, like the KPIs and the numbers. And some of that is kind of the long game of, you know, building trust is a long game, and it’s not always measurable in the moment.

[00:30:36] Jason Hemingway: Yes. Well, as marketers, we all know the difference between the long and short of it, which is very close to our hearts. So, anyway, look, if you think about that, then, and those metrics and the things that you’re talking about, what skills do you think localization professionals, leaders need to develop so that the rest of the business or the business leadership trusts their judgment?

[00:31:03] Freddie Braun: Again, I kind of touched on the unicorn aspect. Finding those people isn’t easy, right? Because they do have to bring a lot of different things to the table. So, they need to be able to blend linguistics, obviously, with strong UX writing, and understanding of design systems is great, given where we’re going, a deep understanding of TMSs. LLM literacy is no longer negotiable. I know a lot of linguists who are still kind of fighting against that. And I say, this is not a smart move. You need to stay ahead of the game. So, that’s very important. And again, in fintech, it helps to have a bit of risk and compliance fluency as well. Then you also want to be throwing a bit of change management and diplomacy into the mix because, you know, change management and creating new ways of working is one thing, but then, effectively socializing that, especially to people who are more senior to you, that is a soft skill that’s underrated. So, they need to bring that to the table now. So, I think that mix really set the rules for the game.

[00:32:10] Jason Hemingway: No, I think you’re right. I think soft skills are underestimated – the art of persuasion. I think people tend to focus on look, let’s talk about business outcomes, let’s talk about the numbers, but actually, lots of what you’re thinking about, as you know, technology changes its disruption, and it’s how do you manage change, how do you build better processes, and things like that. And that is a lot about diplomacy and discussion.

[00:32:34] Freddie Braun: It is. Yep.

[00:32:35] Jason Hemingway: So, look, thanks for that. Let’s move. I wanted, you know, getting towards the end of our time, but I want to just talk about you a little bit, because you’ve got some interesting parts that you’re, you know, you’re about to release a book, which we’ll talk about in a minute, but you describe yourself as kind of a ‘third culture kid’. So, for the audience, can you explain, you know, what does that mean for you, and how that idea has shaped your view of identity and the way brands, you know, or businesses you work for engage with customers in different markets?

[00:33:07] Freddie Braun: Sure. Yeah. ‘Third culture kid’ is an interesting definition. So essentially, it’s someone who has spent their formative years in a culture that is different from their parents and is also different from their birth country or passport country. So, for me, I was born in Lebanon, adopted. So, that makes me a ‘third culture kid’ because my adoptive parents are German, and I grew up all over the world. So, you know, throughout my childhood, I was moved in and out of schools in different countries. And that’s kind of a sink or swim situation, you know, you have to learn to adapt fast, read a room, and get fluent in subtext. You talked about subtext before, right? So, what is said, what’s implied, what will land badly? You know, that doesn’t mean like you’re faking a persona or putting on a show, but it’s just kind of adjusting slightly. You know, one example, my first job I had in London many moons ago, because I’m older than I look. It was the end of my probation, and my boss pulled me into the meeting room and said, “You know, Freddie, your performance is great, everyone thinks it’s great, but people think you’re a little bit rude.” And I was shocked. I was like, you know, I’m like the least rude person I know, if I do say so myself. And, you know, it just showed me that I just came from Germany before and grew up in a German family. And it’s just, you know, so I learned to ask about people’s weekends and things like that. So, I think being a ‘third culture kid’ helps you adapt because you have to. Otherwise, you’re never going to make new friends. So, the core message stays the same. Sorry, go ahead.

[00:34:35] Jason Hemingway: No. Go. I think that, well, what you’re basically saying is adapting is key when you’re dealing with, you know, in your own personal life, you’ve adapted, and you’ve taken that into the job.

[00:34:48] Freddie Braun: Absolutely. You know, I mean, the core message stays the same. It’s just the delivery shifts a little bit. So, I think that’s also why I don’t buy the idea of a single global strategy, right? I think, yes, you need your coherent core, your promises, your values, but then, you express them through local strategies that respect how people talk and how they think. Right? So, and people aren’t stupid, you know, they can spot when something has been tacked on and hasn’t specifically been created with them in mind. And if it isn’t made for them and you’re not talking to them in a way that they appreciate, then it won’t earn their trust or action.

[00:35:26] Jason Hemingway: Yeah. Fascinating. Yeah. Brilliant. I love it. I love it. What an interesting, interesting backstory. So, taking that backstory, your debut novel is coming out soon, Golden Boy, and to what extent have we just talked about some of what drew you to the story? Tell us what the reader should expect. This is your book plug moment, I guess. But it’s like, what should the reader expect in that, in the story?

[00:35:53] Freddie Braun: Yeah. I mean, I’ve always loved to write. So this is, I don’t know, when I started writing this, a couple of years ago. But to me, it felt like, as corny as it sounds, it felt like the book I couldn’t not write. So, it kind of pulls from my time at uni in Scotland and more, personally, also from growing up queer and only coming out in my early 20s. And all of that obviously compounds when you’re at university, right? So, it was quite a cathartic story. I would say it’s kind of a coming-of-age story about identity and belonging, and you know, how the awkward, painful bits of growing up show you what you’re actually made of at the end of the day. There’s also a bit of a dark scene running through it, you know, murder included, because murder is sexy in fiction. You need a hook. But, you know, I think for readers, even though Felix, the protagonist’s story is his own. I think the growing pains, you know, first love and betrayal and messy friendships are pretty universal. So, you know, if readers finish it feeling a little bit seen or remembering a version of themselves that they haven’t visited in a while, then I’ll take that as a win. And also, if they enjoy my prose, that’s a bonus. I’m kind of obsessed with crafting the perfect sentence. So, yeah, there you go.

[00:37:08] Jason Hemingway: Oh, I love it. Well, I look forward to getting a copy of that. Brilliant. So, look…

[00:37:13] Freddie Braun: I’ll send one over.

[00:37:14] Jason Hemingway: Thank you. Well, I’ll buy it, don’t worry. So, one last thing, I think we’re in sort of the quickfire round, so we’re right at the end of our time together, but thanks. Brilliant conversation and an amazing, amazing open and honest discussion, but let’s just get a couple of things. Give me one answer, one-word answers, if you can, or short answers to these little questions that we have at the end. One content metric that leaders overvalue, and one they don’t track enough.

[00:37:44] Freddie Braun: Okay, I’m cheating. It’s not one word. It’s about, you know, I can compound it. Words per week. I think speed without impact is noise, and under-tracked, again, one word is too tricky. I would say how trust compounds over time. And you need to look at the bigger picture rather than just data on the day.

[00:38:03] Jason Hemingway: Yeah. Okay. The kind of long view. So, then, just global growth in one word.

[00:38:10] Freddie Braun: Belonging.

[00:38:11] Jason Hemingway: And then lastly, other than this podcast or your book, what’s a book or podcast that you’re really, really, really looking at right now or loving right now?

[00:38:22] Freddie Braun: So many, but I think a book I keep going back to because I love it is The Secret History by Donna Tartt. It’s just incredible, and I never tire of it. So, yeah.

[00:38:33] Jason Hemingway: Well, Freddie, that’s the end of our time together. And I just want to say a huge thank you for a wonderful discussion covering all different things, personal and business, all together, mixed up, and it was just fascinating. And I look forward to getting you on the podcast again in the near future. And in the meantime, the best of luck with the book and the work you’re doing at Monzo.

[00:38:56] Freddie Braun: Thank you so much. And thank you for having me. It was a really great conversation. Appreciate it.

[00:38:59] Jason Hemingway: Freddie, thank you so much for joining us today, I mean, and a brilliant conversation, and you gave such a clear view of what it takes to scale global content so that it stays trusted, consistent, and relevant as markets and channels multiply. And of course, best of luck with your book, Golden Boy. We’ll all be watching for that. And with that, that’s it for another episode of In Other Words, the podcast from Phrase. I’ve been your host, Jason Hemingway, and a massive thank you again to Freddie Braun for sharing his invaluable insights into scaling global content and how we use AI in multilingual content creation, and the important role of content in ultimately creating global experiences that kind of resonate with local audiences. If you enjoyed today’s episode, please do subscribe to In Other Words on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or your preferred podcast platform. And you can find much more or many more conversations on leadership, growth, and global execution at Phrase.com. Thanks for listening, and I’ll see you next time.